Re: yeah

hi kea,

social sanction is a reality

It's not just a reality. It's an increasingly erroneous and ill-informed one as far as the mainstream goes. I make that point because I think things are really in flux socially. More people are realizing every day just how much they've been lied to about the reality or extent of various things which cause them to fret and fear and feel distress about the world around them.

The ethical concerns involved, the ones you're referring to, about reactions from others, are highly influenced by the kinds of people both of you happen or choose to associate with day to day. There's many people who are not choosing to live by what is socially sanctioned by the mainstream these days (on both sides of the political spectrum, I might add). I would caution people not to use those cautionary dictates to rule their lives, especially if the prepackaged standards do not fit in with their own broader lifestyle.

I guess I continue to have a problem with the very popular belief around here that sexual contact inevitably leads to a high level of emotional stress, caused by others, and that it requires condemnation of contact with children in all instances. I cannot and would not encourage anyone to break any laws of course, but I also don't think many who hold your view realize that there are communities of various strains and in different locales.. which do not obsess about pedosexuality or the "danger" of kids voluntarily having sex. And my point here is, the less daily exposure to it that people get, the less they obsess about it themselves, and the less children grow up to feel robbed of something, or feel guilt about a "dirty" choice they made within the context of feeling intense love for someone they cared about. You ditch your televisions, you ditch your kooky friends and neighbors who sit around the kitchen watching Nancy Grace and the Lifetime channel, you live not where people "love pedos" but where people are not so gullible to the mainstream propaganda that's become such a bleak and disempowering reality for everyone today. You fight against the various false assertions that "sex is bad" or that no child or young teen is "ready to handle" physical intimacy. What you do not do, it seems to me, is grant more power to the assertions by allowing them to force you down the road of good touch, bad touch. When you do so, you inadvertently bestow more merit and legitimacy and power over the false assertion that all children are "damaged" by having sex, and you probably help to extend the life of the erroneous belief. If you truly want that wayward belief to change, you avoid creating an oath of obedience that props it up and keeps your honest love painted as an enemy of the people.

That said, I think there are many many instances today in which doing stuff with kids can indeed be very emotionally harmful to them, either presently or as they grow up in the forced role of victimhood. I just firmly believe there are, even in the current atmosphere, ways to determine pretty accurately whether any specific child would be harmed.

...many people in the world have constraints on their sexual expression, whatever their orientation. its not unique to us, and it is something that has to be managed emotionally.

Great point and well taken, but in most of those cases, there is some socially sanctioned outlet provided for them. In the case of say, priests and nuns, they are forbidden from sex altogether. The reasoning is to channel that sexual energy toward God or doing good for the community or whatever, but I don't think it needs to be said just how often that vow of chastity is broken. It's not a natural expectation to lay upon another human being.

Nevertheless, I again agree with you that we all should be able to enjoy the company of kids in ways that are completely nonsexual. My own sexual feelings for girls are only the result of all the many wonderful qualities they possess. To me, that is one difference between a girl lover and a mere pedophile.