Re: I Can't Go Home Again :(

I would add to this statement, the following ..... "and their blissful ignorance of anything and everything and their complacency of the rules and their endless pitiful drive to impress their friends"

Yes, teens do have many negative traits, and I have NEVER been blind to this fact, as I have mentioned it many times before, I have been subjected to their negative traits in the past much to my sorrow, and I have made it clear that if I was allowed to hang with these girls, I would avoid those who were not good people. My history on this board has made it clear that I have not supported any girl poster who was not a good person and who was here just to play games and manipulate the guys here (and as emotionally vulnerable and lonely as guys in our community often are, it was quite easy for these girls to do). When you are attracted to a certain group of people, that doesn't mean you are blind to their negative traits (those that do pretend that girls do not have or cannot have negative traits are expressing not love, but flat out worship), it simply means that they celebrate the positive traits that attract them to the group of people in question, and this is what I was doing here in this GM.

As for teen girls being complacent to the rules, I beg to differ there. Many teens rebel against the authoritarian restrictions on their lives, but since the great majority of them currently do not see themselves as a distinct minority group worthy of civil rights (they are NOT raised or taught to view themselves in such a way), they often tend to rebel in anti-social, combative, and self-destructive ways. However, as the youth liberation movement continues to grow, more and more teens every year are discovering its existence and are coming to the realization that they are a distinct minority group and that there are positive, constructive, and self-liberating ways to rebel (even if these ways are no more socially acceptable than the negative forms of rebellion due to society's current attitudes towards people under 18).

As for teen girls going out of their way to impress their friends, that is true. However, that is true for people in any given community, and since teens are currently segregated into only associating with people in their own general age group on a social basis, they don't have any real opportunities to make friends outside of their immediate peer groups, so their choices for social companionship are limited to the often cliquish behavior found among what passes for "youth culture" today. Hence, their behavior along these lines, while certainly not admirable or positive in any way, is at least understandable.

Diss; Please STOP torturing yourself.

Point taken, though I would opine that it's largely society and its idiotic, ageist rules that are torturing me for disallowing me to make friendships with teens :(

I didn't make much sense of how in the first paragraph you said you can't hang with those girls because you'd be negatively accused of something, while in the second paragrapg you say you could be a chaparone. [Please explain, if you be so kind]

I was speaking entirely in the hypothetical when I mentioned the fictitious scenario of me being a chaparone. I said that the only way I COULD actively participate in a teen social gathering, such as a dance, would be as a chaparone, NOT as a participant. I was lamenting the fact that this would currently be the only way I could be involved in any way in such a social gathering.

ANyways, this is why I say it may be counterproductive for our MAA-ness to be made known. It keeps us from being able to even get close to the young, let alone win over their respect. At least with our MAA-ness being kept secret, we could get close to the young and at least win over their respect and likeness. And I really think the second option is better than the first. What good are we to anyone (especially the young) if we have to keep ourselves at a distance while our opponents are filling the minds of the young with misinformation regarding MAA-ness?

I don't think it's counterproductive for MAAs who can afford to be out of the toybox to step out of it. If all of us remained in the toybox, then none of us could prove to our friends and family that it's entirely possible for an MAA to be a good and decent person. Granted, being out of the toybox comes with a huge sacrifice (i.e., not being able to associate closely with the young people we love without incurring extreme suspicion and accusations), as well as many risks, but I think it's worth it in the end. I strongly believe that some of us have to look at the big picture and make this sacrifice, otherwise we will do nothing to convince people--one heart and mind at a time--that we are not the evil monsters that the media portrays us as, but human beings who are fully capable of loving and caring for other people. Also, if we are in the toybox, any friends we did make in the age group we love the most wouldn't know we were MAAs, so there would be no way for us to disprove the media-driven misinformation to them anyway. Those of us who are out of the toybox may have no choice but to keep ourselves at a distance from young people in our AoA, but we DO NOT have to keep ourselves at a distance from the legal adults who currently vote and help make all the rules in society. Further, I am able to legally date young women in the age group of 18-early 20's, and whenever I do this I go out of my way to avoid living up to the common stereotypes aimed at older men who prefer younger women, and by showing people who know me that I am capable of loving, respecting, and treating younger women I am involved with romantically kindly, it sends a strong--and very accurate--message that I would likewise be respectful, courteous, considerate, and loving with girls who are under 18 if I was legally able to date and/or socialize with them. I think this is very important. It's not not beneficial for our community IMO if every single one of us without exception keeps their MAA-ness hidden, because though we can still prove to those we associate with that we are good people, they will not become aware that an MAA can be a good person, too. I believe that my being out of the toybox in real life has gone a long way towards convincing the people close to me that our community is not full of murderous child-raping psychopaths, and as such, I am more than willing to make the sacrifices and take the risks that come along with being "out." People in the community who tell me things like, "I will never be out of the toybox or an activist for the community because then I couldn't be friends with all of the girls/boys that are now in my life, and I treasure these friendships too much for that" are certainly entitled to this choice, but we greatly need those who, as I said, consider the big picture much more important than simply feathering our own private nest.

Further, even if I was still in the toybox, it would NOT make me feel happy in the long run to be able to make friends with teen girls. Keeping my MAA-ness (as you call it) hidden from them, which I would have to do if I wanted to be able to associate with them in real life, wouldn't do our community any favors because they would assume that I wasn't an MAA. Also, if I associated with a good number of AGs as platonic friends, it would cause me no small amount of pain and anguish that I could ONLY be friends with every single one of them, and that those I would be attracted to as more than just a friend, I wouldn't be able to tell them how I felt. So even though I could get close to them in a pure social sense, and that would be wonderful for those I wasn't attracted to in a more than platonic way, I would inevitably be attracted romantically to some of them, and it would really make me sad that I had to keep that hidden from them at all times and thus deny a major part of my being when I was hanging out with them. I would become extremely envious of the teen boys they also hung out with because those boys could not only be friends with them like me, but they could also be more than that, and I would feel greatly frustrated that unlike their friends in the same age group, I could ONLY be a friend to them in a purely platonic sense. And if one or more of these teen girl friends of mine turned out to be a gerontophile who shared an attraction with me, it would hurt both of us to a great extent that we would have to wait however many years it took her to reach her 18th birthday before we could take our friendship to something more, and there would be a great likelihood that she would get tired of having to wait and find another romantic interest before she turned 18.

Further, and perhaps most importantly, people in this community who constantly tell me that those of us in the toybox who are attracted to AGs should do our best to make platonic friends with as many of them as possible do not seem to take into consideration that our society currently frowns upon even platonic friendships being made between adults and teens who are under the Magic Age, and more than one person in real life would ask me, with all of their ageist prejudices and assumptions becoming apparent, "Why would a guy your age want to be friends with a girl her age? I think that's weird." And while we could tell that person that it's none of their business because we are not doing anything illegal with those girls (as Trucker would tell me to do), there could still be accusations thrown at us, and we need to consider this.

Diss; I am formally sorry for losing my cool at you in that last argument. But I care about you!, ya know? You've done so much for me. And don't ever let my little hasty blow up make you think I don't care about or appreciate you or see you as a valuable human being. I definately do.

*brotherly hugs* I am not going to stop calling you Sputnik because I like the name and I think it fits you (though I am unable to explain why I think that, the name just came to me out of the blue, and I certainly think it's better than "Stah" and some of those other variations of your main nick that people have been calling you, and there is nothing derogatory in any way about the name 'Sputnik'), in regards to our recent disagreement (while I am quite hurt that you would use something against me like my 'virtual affair' with Taylor Swift rather than simply focusing on any aspects of my ideology or general attitude that you may disagree with), I was too harsh on you and I apologize for it. I can be a major ass when I get riled up, and contrary to what those who get into arguments with me seem to think, I am very self-introspective and I sincerely regret hurting people when I fight with them, especially people that I am fond of. But in regards to our spat, as a very cute AG I recently talked to online said (since her quote is appropriate right now), it's all gravy.

Anyways, My advice is for you to stop torturing yourself (and to discover the proper steps for you to take in order to do so). Do what you must to not think dwell on all this so much. There really is more to life, and we are just as entitled to these others things as anyone is.

I am well aware that there are more things to life than AGs as much as I love them, and that is the main point I make when I tell people in this community that it's important to look at the big picture and not base their entire lives around their GL or BL. My writing projects (both in and outside of this community), the various websites I maintain, the various activist projects I am involved with (both in and outside of this community), my various other hobbies (which includes reading), and the time I spend with my friends both offline and online, make up for the fact that I can't have any AGs in my life outside of my professional work in the youth liberation movement. Nevertheless, though there is far more to my persona and interests than my AGL (Adolescent Girl Love, for those few newbies who may not get the acronym), my GL is nevertheless an important aspect of my self-identity, and when I do see some really awesome AGs in various public places I may go to, it does hurt me when I realize that I have to totally deny this aspect of my life and cannot in any way associate with these girls.

would even suggest you keep your MAA-ness a bit more low-profile (if possible). You can be around young people more easily if people don't know this info of you.

Please refer to my above statements about why I do not regret being out of the toybox despite the sacrifices that come with it.

You can be around young people more easily if people don't know this info of you. And that means you can change the hearts and minds of young people first hand.

Making platonic friendships with AGs and teens in general is not the only possible way I (or others in this community) can do things to benefit their lives. I think fighting for their civil rights in the youth liberation movement and donating my time online to various groups that work for the betterment of the condition of youths in society, as well as speaking up in defense of young people (if warrented) to people I know in real life should they make an ageist comment or mistreat a younger person unnecessarily, is more than doing my share to benefit younger people.

I think many of us on here have separated ourselves, in large degree, from the world and our objects of desire. But we truly need not do that. We are part of the human race just as anyone is. And we owe it to no one to tell them of our sexual preferences. NO ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!

If every single one of us did that, there would be no orgs like B4U-Act, and I think we need MORE such orgs in the future, not less, because people in our community need to reach out to the public, particularly to the MHP's who have a lot of influence on social policy, and we need to prove that we are not evil monsters to these people, and we need to teach them about what it really is to be an MAA so they don't get all of their info from a combination of the media, talking to LEOs, reading texbooks about us, or interviewing only those MAAs who broke the law and been through the system, especially since a huge proportion of sex offenders are not true MAAs at all but what we call situational child molesters. Hence, I stand by my statement that those of us who can afford to be out of the toybox should take a look at the big picture and strongly consider doing so. The more of us that come out of the toybox and prove to those around us that we are capable of being good, caring, loving, and productive people, and the more we reach out to people in professional positions so that they can learn the truth about us rather than get all of their info on us from sources that have every reason to portray us in a biased way, the less ground the antis will have to stand on when they spew their bigoted nonsense, and the less likely people will be to listen to the misinformation that the media regularly spreads about us. Conversely, the more of us that stay in the toybox, the easier it is for the antis to convince people that we are evil monsters who have something to hide, and the more it allows the media to portray us as a shadowy menace that uses stealth to stay out of the public eye so that we can more easily move in on unsuspecting kids and molest them. Coming out of the toybox is an immense show of good faith to society despite all the risks and sacrifices we have to make when we do so, and it goes against the claims of the antis and the media who constantly say that our primary motivation for making friends with anyone who happens to have kids is to insinuate ourselves into the lives of these families by pretending to be their friends just so that we get access to their children without them suspecting what we "really" are. All of my friends who have kids trust me implicitely (and have every reason to) because they know that if my overture of friendship to them was on false pretenses and I became friends with them solely for the purpose of getting access to their kids, I certainly wouldn't have come out of the toybox and admitted I was a hebephile.

They simply don't deserve to know. And we don't deserve to commit social suicide by telling them. I learned a hard lesson by telling my family. I was on the wrong path, and I'm working on getting over the need to have others know of my MAA-ness.

I think you either may have went about letting your family know about your MAA-ness in the wrong way, or your family was particularly biased in that direction, or perhaps a combination of the two, since my experience was very different. My family wasn't thrilled to find out I was a hebephile, and they rarely ever talk to me about it, but they don't think any less of me and content themselves with the fact that they know I do not break any laws. Do they see me as an embarrassment to them because of my MAA activism? Yes, they do, and it's quite obvious that they do, but I can't be overly concerned about that. To me, doing what I believe to be the right thing and refusing to deny an important aspect of my self-identity that I have no reason to be ashamed of is much more important than earning the approval of my family, or anyone else for that matter. I fully admit that coming out of the toybox to family and friends is a very delicate and risky thing to do, and people in our community who can afford to do so and choose to do so should indeed exercise the utmost caution in who they initially tell, and what words they choose to use when telling them. Assuring them that we do not and will not break those laws goes a long way towards at least cooling them down. If people realize that we are a good person before they know of our attraction base, then I have found they will be unlikely to reject us even if they freak out a bit at first and tell us things like (as one of my friends did when I first told her I was a hebephile), "You can't be one of them! You're too good of a person to be one of them! You are just saying this to get attention..." The biggest trouble I have had is with people who do not know me that well and find out about my attraction base, because if people don't know you it's easy for them to think all sorts of things about you (this was the case with that young gay woman I met through my lesbian friend Nancy, who didn't know me well and decided to bad mouth me behind my back when she found out that I was willing to date a 21 year old woman). Also, of course, people who did not like me much to begin with are certainly going to use the revelation of my attraction base against me, and some of my friends have expressed concern to me about this in the past, especially my friend Bob, who once told me, "You know some people are going to use this against you, especially if they should ever have a major disagreement with you about anything at all, right?" However, I strive very hard to be as good a person as possible despite all my human flaws, I do not betray my friends, I do not steal from them, I do not use them for money or anything else, I am always there for them when they need me, I am reliable, and I always have their back if I believe they are in the right about something (though I would never break the law in any way for anyone, of course, and a true friend would never ask me to). As such, though my activism causes me to make a lot of enemies among those who disagree with my views (the neocons hate me to no end, for instance, and I take this as a compliment), I can live with this and I strive to keep my personal conduct with others on the up and up at all times. That definitely counts for something in their eyes.

Well, I'm starting to lose my train of thought now. So I hope I was some sort of help to you. And I hope you accept my apology.

Yes to all of the above.