Re: Waiting for us to change

Outting yourself has achieved nothing.

You don't know what it has done. Don't pretend you do. I have changed opinions considerably simply by being out and modeling good behavior.

That's not the first step. The first step is having a plan, having some place to go, something to do.

Oh? Well, you can hatch all the plans you like but you can't do much of anything as long as you remain in the shadows. Outing yourself absolutely is the first step. If you're going to riot for pedo rights, you're outing yourself by default.

What have you done? Nothing.

LOL, okay. As I said, you have no idea what I have done.

Your political correctness and lack of being a part of any greater movement makes you ineffective. Of course I know you all too well Markaba, that's why specifically said everyone is to blame. But of course I knew you'd try to put yourself above the rest as you like to do.

I wasn't trying to put myself above the rest of you; I was just calling you out on your hypocrisy. You want to preach about what sort of activism we should do and yet apparently you're not even willing to go as far as I have. Ironic?

Funny but they didn't say that about other minorities who rioted. It's always seemed to go in their favor. But you try to knock it before it is even tried, "oh, that'll never work." As if anything we have done so far has worked. As if they aren't already passes more and more laws against us.

Uh, yes they did. But the radical gays were cushioned by the fact that they were radicalized in an era when all sorts of taboos and persecution was being challenged. Their movement advanced as part of a wave of social and cultural advancement.

And what you have done has amounted to nothing. You might as well have never come out.

Spoken like someone who has no interest in understanding the truth and in minimizing anyone who doesn't agree with his militant nonsense. Don't even presume you have the faintest clue what I have done. Maybe I'm not organizing big events or staging protests, but within my circle I have measurably changed minds and attitudes. Movements always start small and organically. History doesn't record all of the gays who outed themselves only to friends and family when they were extremely unpopular, but there can be no doubt that they collectively had an impact in changing the general mindset of the populace in small ways, which gradually built up to the point where the Stonewall riots could happen.

Furthermore, Stonewall was not organized; the riots were reactionary and they took place in a certain environment that was conducive to them. Generally speaking, the gays were far more socially acceptable at that point than we are now, whatever the laws were. We will have to make many more advances before anything like that would be effective for us, and the time has to be right for it. Right now it's not. You can believe whatever you like. Go preach it whoever will listen; maybe you'll even convince some people. Hey, good luck. Maybe you will do something pursuing that end, and if you do I'll be the first to cheer. Personally I think you're wasting your time. All you'll manage to do, in my estimation, is bring violence upon yourselves and more harassment and persecution for us in general.