I don't disagree that the gov't handled it badly. It's a spot of shame on an otherwise pretty good record. Nevertheless, pretending like they were complete innocents is bull pucky and you know it. They followed standard cult techniques, like drugging their members without their knowledge or consent ⚠️ ↗, excommunicating members at gunpoint who questioned their teachings ⚠️ ↗, claimed ownership of all females by the head of the cult (including the children, who did not consent to this), fear tactics to isolate members from the outside world, etc. It was a cult, and a pretty classic example of one.

You talk about this community as if it were some kind of universal constant that they were evil. Did they do you any harm? Do you have any evidence that they were not "totally nice guys", or are you simply regurgitating 18 year old propaganda because they were religious people, who you probably would despise if you knew them?

The cult itself wasn't evel per se, but it had evil members, including David Koresh. Koresh, of course, didn't believe he was evil, but it is exactly what I'm talking about when I talked of the intricacies and mundanities of evil. It's not even about them being religious; even if religion hadn't been an element I would view them the same way. There were left-wing hippie/socialist cults I despise just as much because they behaved the same way, though these are rarer. A religious basis works so well for cults because so many people are raised never to question faith or religion in this country.

No one deserves to be attacked with poison gas, crushed by armored personnel vehicles, and burned to death by their government. Especially not children and pregnant women. And you are a damned fool for believing the post genocide propaganda.

I agree with the first sentence. You can call me a fool me a fool if you like, but there were too many survivors of the cult who reported what was happening for me not to recognize that there was bad shit going on. You're as much a fool as you think I am if you dismiss that entirely simply because you dislike the gov't.

And you argue that the government should be in every home because some parents might spank their kids? This argument is at the root of 99% of the problem in the US. "If it saves one child" is the battle cry of those who wish to do very evil things.

Do you support youth rights or not? If you do, then who do think will enforce them? Us? The kids themselves? Give me a break. If you don't support youth rights then what do you support? Letting parents do whatever they want a la Goethe? Parents may believe they have their children's best interests at heart, and sometimes they do, but just as often they don't. They are motivated to protect their offspring because they are a genetic investment--ergo, the sense of children being their property.

I have never known a household in the US (with children) where the government hadn't been involved in. Has this stopped parents from sending their kids to bed early?

But in what ways are they involved? Gov't involvement is not de facto harmful, as much as you want it to be. Again, who will enforce youth rights if not the gov't? Parents? Suuuuuuuurrrrreee. Also, as far as I recall, there's no law against sending kids to bed early, so your example is ridiculous.

Of course not. Davidians and the Mormons are examples of a very big problem in the US. It is out of control. Armed men kidnap children from their families all the time. Parents are dragged off and tried in secret courts and put under gag orders so their stories are never known. You can not find accurate statistics on the "child abuse industry". They are above the law and operate on a black budget. The only indication of how widespread they are is the fact that virtually every family in America has been attacked and/or threatened by them.

No, cults are not a big problem, but I don't see armed cult task forces roaming the streets, knocking on doors, etc. The Branch Davidians existed for a long time without gov't interference and only came to the gov't's attention after being reported. Yes, the gov't is constantly kidnapping kids from families for no reason. Right. You're the one with the distorted and paranoid view, not me. Take your medication already. Yes, the child abuse industry is huge and unwieldy and certainly oversteps it's bounds; I have never questioned that. Nevertheless, they do exist for a reason. Your "all or nothing" arguments are simplistic and paranoid.

The gov't didn't pass things like Megan's Law against the people's wishes; they were popular well before that. I recall well before these harsh SO laws and the SO registry that society had pretty violent and hateful feelings about pedophiles. My own dad expressed a pretty gruesome wish towards a sex offender whose case was mentioned on the radio when I was 10 (1982-83)--I was shocked by what he said. Why do you think I never told anyone I was close to about my own feelings, which arose not long after that? I knew how society felt about us. But oh, it's all the gov't's doing--everyone is brainwashed by the state and if the gov't would just get out of the picture it would all go in our favor, right? Get a clue.

Your hatred for religious people has warped your judgement. The men with guns who kidnap children from their families are the bad guys.

I'll admit my bias against religion. I was raised in the Deep South in a Christian family, and I know first-hand the damage it can do to sensitive, obedient and trusting kids. I've seen it. I also know what a crutch it is. I was terrified to sleep at night as a child and prayed to God nightly to take away my fear and nightmares. It never happened. I wonder why? Did God not love me enough when I was a boy? Apparently not, since he gave me a severe disability in the womb. Heh, no. The truth is it's all bullshit, and it's destructive bullshit. Watch Church Camp--it's disturbing.