Well, that's interesting, but I've observed real life situations enough to know that Thompson is full of shit. She's obviously cherry-picking her data. And I'm talking primarily about girls who date peers, which is much more culturally sanctioned. Girls getting their hearts broken is not a fun thing to be around; I've been there to comfort them after the fallout from that.

No, Thompson was not cherry-picking her data, nor is she full of shit, and I ask you to please read what I said a bit closer. Her data did not determine that young girls receive a disproportionately greater degree of heartbreak if a romantic relationship with a significantly older adult ends for whatever reason than if a similar relationship with a peer ended. There is no logical basis for that assumption.

And for the record, I too have seen the fallout from heartbreak, and it should be known that adult lovers receive the same degree of heartbreak that young girls would potentially feel in the event of a break-up, and girls very often lose interest long before the adult would have. I haven't exactly lived in a cave my life, I've seen it all just as you have.

I honestly think, Markie, that you overcompensate for females in a general sense when dealing with issues like this, and you tend to see them as both requiring and deserving of greater consideration for their feelings than males, even though many girls and women are quite resilient emotionally, and are not intrinsically "weaker" than their male counterparts emotionally. This is not a form of respect, but rather a form of pandering. Sometimes, however, the illusion of greater female emotional vulnerability is created because girls are allowed by our culture to be more publicly demonstrative of their emotions (such as public outbursts of crying, as opposed to doing it behind the scenes) without being ridiculed or feeling uncomfortable, unlike boys and men, who are expected to look and act "tough" even if they aren't.

Also, let's be honest here: many girls and women are inveterate drama queens, and will milk a break-up or any emotional experience for all it's worth due to a desire for attention. Why? Because it often works, as you can readily attest when you offer your shoulder to them. I am NOT trying to trivialize the real pain many of them feel when they experience a break-up, especially when I have felt that same type of pain all too often myself, but I am also not going to pretend that many of them don't love drama as much as anything else.

So there's no way a girl dating an older man--which isn't culturally sanctioned, at least in the West--will not have to deal with the stigma of that, not to mention feeling old before her time, etc., on top of having her heart broken.

And the older man in the equation will not have to deal with an even worse amount of stigma in that situation?

"Feeling old before her time"? Ummm, how about the man being made to feel like a "predator," a "cradle robber," a "kiddy fiddler," etc.?

And once again, you seem to outright assume that the girl is taking the bulk of the emotional risk in such a relationship from the get-go, as if it's far more likely that the man in the hypothetical situation will lose interest in her first, or that she will bond with him monoamorously for life, or worse, that she is totally incapable of dealing with such a break-up if and when it happens for whatever reason. You need to read Susan Clancy's book The Trauma Myth, which partially touches on this point (even though the general theme is recovery from sexual abuse), and Clancy sure as hell doesn't like MAAs! Do you see what I mean when I caution you and others against overcompensating when endeavoring to come off as caring and considerate of girls? I think we do a better job of showing care and consideration for them when we respect them and their capabilities rather than coddle them for their perceived weaknesses and vulnerabilities--which is precisely the core basis of the stigma directed at us in the first place. Again, I do not say this to be condemnatory or argumentative with you, but simply to give you some perspective, which I know you are capable of when you aren't in one of these moods of yours.

Sorry, but one clearly biased book is not enough to convince me.

Markie, when you are in this type of mood, any book that does not toe the cultural party line with coddling girls is seen as "biased." Did you even bother to read Thompson's book? No, you just dismissed it, and you did so based on an assumption of what she said, which was based on a misinterpretation of what I mentioned her data suggesting. Please read the first paragraph of this post again for re-clarification.

I'm too wise to (and too weary of) this kind of disregard of reality that goes on here. Besides, even if it was/is rare, you can't count on that being the case. That's called wishful thinking, and it is the scourge of many an unrealistic relationship.

No, Markie, you are not being wise, you are being very disrespectful of your own community when you assume that so many of us would behave in the type of fashion you accused Baldur of condoning, and misreading his words that way. There is no wisdom about that, nor an adherence to reality, but a pure dislike for your own community, along with a desire to work out your inner guilt over your feelings by venting against the people who support you and respect you the most in this world. And then you will turn around and complain about how alienated you feel around here, leave in a huff, and then come back eventually when you realize you receive more support here than anywhere else despite what creeps you regularly accuse the lot of us for being.

Regular objective research contradicts everything you and the rest of society say here, and all you do is dismiss such research as being "obviously biased." What purpose would a non-MAA sociologist like Susan Thompson have to doctor such information? Rind sure benefited from his position on this issue, didn't he? There is nothing to gain, and much to lose, when speaking truthfully about the data gleaned from researching this subject objectively, that's for certain. Please consider this the next time you attack your own community and treat girls like the equivalent of emotional china dolls. I am not going to defend you or tolerate that behavior when I see it from you like too many others here do out of deference to the genuine pain you have suffered in the past. I sympathize with you too, trust me I do, but there has to come a time when someone has to put their foot down with you about it and let you know how insulting you come off to both girls and members of your own community when you act like this. And if that person must be me, then so be it. I will continue to support you, both on and off the board if you need it, but I will also call you on your regular insulting behavior around here whenever you are hurting.

My cynicism has nothing to do with youth competency. I speak from experience.

Experience you, and none of the rest of us, have, correct? And the rest of us are all biased because of what selfish creeps we are, right?

I am still dealing with the emotional issues that grew out of my single sexual contact with an adult.

A guy you were not attracted to, who did not respect your wishes in the matter, and which society insists you consider yourself damaged goods for life as a perpetual victim as a result of that unwanted interaction, and encourages you to believe that you would be trivializing your pain if you actually healed from it and moved on with your life. And you consider your encounter with that man typical of what all underagers would experience with an adult regardless of how different the above factors may be in different situations, and regardless of what type of person any given MAA may be. What that man did was very wrong, but taking it out on the MAA community in the way you, and the rest of society, often does is equally wrong, and two wrongs do not make a right.

I had unrealistic ideas about the guy, and my immersion in the BLer environment has made me see the light: BLers as a rule are assholes, and I can't believe I didn't see my molester for what he was.

Markie, with all due respect, when you make comments like the above, you deserve to lose all respect, at least until you get your head together, look back on what you just said, and realize what you are doing, and whose game you are playing. Don't become a tool of society by hating your own community, or of hating yourself or doubting your own ability to overcome in order to qualify as a darling Victim, i.e., building a whole social identity around being a victim. There is no way I am going to coddle you when you make comments like the above, especially when so many others here do so, or ignore you altogether when you do this. Someone has to call you on this type of rhetoric that you regularly utter around here. And please note that after making such comments, you will go right back to BC and post there among them, and call foul if they treat you less than respectfully after you just did the same to them.

I have blinded myself to the truth for too long. Has my constant emotional fluctuations, which has been on display at GC for awhile now, not convinced you that this shit really messed me up?

I don't think it was your unwanted interaction with that man that totally messed you up, Markie. I think you would have overcome it much better if not for societal attitudes and reactions to such things, and how they encourage victims of genuine abuse to be "really messed up" for life, and to lash out at the very concept of adult attraction to minors rather than the cherished institutions and paradigms that leave kids vulnerable to all forms of abuse. What that man did to you was very wrong, but I think it was the same societal attitudes that you are pandering to right now that messed you up so badly. And again, taking it out on your community, and disparaging the majority of BLers, is not going to help you overcome your pain, nor is it going to earn you the respect and support you want from this community. If we were really the creeps that society encourages you to paint us as, and to make you feel so guilty for being a member of, we would have washed our hands of you a long time ago, and you would not be capable of feeling the level of (undeserved) guilt that you do simply for having the feelings you do, and engaging in such uncalled for degrees of overcompensation that you regularly do to assuage these feelings of societal-imposed guilt. Yet more than anything else we give you forgiveness and understanding. Maybe you can show us the same during one of your emotionally sober periods now and then, and you will think about how we feel when you make such accusations against us.