Female Childhood Orgasm

WARNING: Long post. Submitted in its entirety to prevent redundancy or confusion.

(from http://annabelleigh.net/messages/575493.htm)
Posted by Rewdius on Monday, May 13 2013 at 07:56:58am

... how do you think the GC members would handle the research I did for VoA regarding female childhood orgasm?

Given another more recent thread I wonder if this topic also needs to be discussed so the facts can be shared.

(from http://annabelleigh.net/messages/575507.htm)
Posted by luvme2times on Monday, May 13 2013 at 09:24:25pm

I could use that information. I have been searching web for how I should feel about my 7yo masturbating to (the cutest damn) orgasms (I have ever seen) by rubbing herself on the arm of a couch, at her home, at my home, at other peoples homes. It's amazing to me that no one seems to notice her tightening into a stiff mass of muscle and being flushed and totally out of breath after. I nudged my wife once and said, 'how cute is that?' and she replied, 'oh my, I never noticed she was doing that before'. Crap people, it's by far the most interesting thing going on in the room!!!!

I have asked the 7yo what she was doing and she replied something like, 'having the most wonderful, lovely, greatest, feeling ever' (I wish to hell I could remember exactly what she said because it was amazingly adorable).

Her parents are oblivious and I have wondered if I could help guide her in a way that won't get her yelled at to 'stop that' but that won't make her feel bad about doing it. Have said nothing to her so far because I'm afraid of doing more harm than good.

So, I for one, would love some good information, Rewd.

As requested ...........

On at least two medical discussion sites, one specifically geared toward women, I read anecdotal accounts of:

- adult women who
---- admitted to having orgasms even before preschool;
---- openly rubbed against all sorts of things at primary school (6 to 9 y/o) to gain pleasure;
---- admitted that their activities weren't thought of as "sexual" because of their age;
---- felt relieved after having shared their "secret" with other adult women;

- parents who
---- watched [at length] their infant LG's masturbate;
---- repeatedly observed their preschool LG's rubbing themselves against various furniture;

Magnus Hirschfeld Archive for Sexology - Childhood Sex Play
(from the book: The Sex Atlas)
Haeberle, Erwin J. The sex atlas.
HQ12.H33 1981 612'.6 81-12604 ISBN 0-8264-0178-3 AACR2 ISBN 0-8264-0057-4 (pbk.)

(from http://www2.hu-berlin.de/sexology/ATLAS_EN/html/childhood_sex_play.html)

"It seems that, on the whole, fewer girls than boys masturbate to orgasm at an early age. One reason for this may be found in the different anatomy of the two sexes. [...] A second reason may be the passive, nonsexual attitude that girls learn to adopt as a result of social conditioning. In our culture, little girls are usually not encouraged to be sexual beings."

[...]

"Parents who see their boys or girls masturbate make a serious mistake if they become alarmed about it and force them to stop under the threat of punishment. This will only create needless feelings of guilt in the children as they continue the practice in secret. The sexual response is a normal function of the human body at any age and, as such, cannot possibly do any physical harm. Neither can it stunt a child's growth. On the contrary, for many children masturbation is simply part of growing up, and there is no medical reason why they should not enjoy it. Nevertheless, children can and should learn that, in our particular culture, masturbation is a very personal and private activity which is unacceptable in public. At the same time, they should be made to understand that what is done in private is not necessarily bad, shameful, sinful, or dirty. As long as such negative connotations are avoided, childhood masturbation creates no problems."

[...]

"... our Western civilization has not always believed that children should be protected from all sexual contact. In medieval Europe, children were still freely touched, caressed, and fondled by every member of the household. Particularly in rural areas, parents, nurses, or servants were accustomed to masturbating small children to please them or to keep them quiet. [...] However, in modern times there has been a growing tendency to view children as asexual beings. Only in this century, under the influence of Freud and his followers, has the sexuality of children regained at least partial acceptance. Nevertheless, most people continue to believe that there cannot possibly be any harmless sexual contact between children and adults."

[...]

"Children who are constantly warned against strangers, and who are taught to be suspicious of any friendly gesture on the part of adults, may become nervous, hostile, and withdrawn. Eventually, they may learn to fear all adults and all sexual feelings and thus become emotionally crippled. This may also happen if they have a sexual encounter with an adult which is then discovered and misinterpreted by other adults. Even if the encounter was disturbing, it may in itself cause less psychological damage than the overreaction of parents, neighbors, and public officials."

I was taught that masturbation is dirty and sexual intercourse is strictly for reproductive reasons as a married couple. Having my first full wet orgasm at 11 ... did things to me that both scared and fascinated me, but I had already been told "doing it" was wrong and dirty, so I didn't learn the truth until many years later from older boys and "very loose" girls. I now consider those guys welcome comrades and the girls to be generous teachers and playmates, but my folks never saw it that way.

Geez, why must we try so hard to repress our most basic of natural activities such as personal pleasure? It's my contention that people just don't get enough sex, nor are most people comfortable talking about it with anyone else. If we were more comfortable with both and had less Victorian or Puritan views about it we might grow up. But then, I'm thinking like a Westerner, and there is a large population of 13th Century thinkers who have even more restrictive beliefs about sex, in spite of their own hypocrisy.

(from http://www.ipce.info/booksreborn/martinson/articles/1994_children.html)

A fairly generous portion of the text from the site identified above is being shared because providing less might communicate an incomplete message.

Vern Bullough and Bonnie Bullough (eds), Human Sexuality: An Encyclopedia, Garland Publishing Company, 1994.

Children and Sex, Part II: Childhood Sexuality

[...]

"In American society, mothers are assured that interaction with a baby that is intimate and sensual is appropriate. There is no quarrel with the prescription that the proper socialization of infants calls for intimate, tender, loving care. Child care experts and the society in general approve of it. Developmental studies suggest that infants' emotional maturation depends on such stimulation. On the other hand, clinical studies credit deficient physical contact between infant and parent as the cause of later inability to form attachments. It happens that it is this same intimate socialization that leads to development of the sexual potential of infants, for infants who are given optimum intimate attention are much more likely to masturbate than are children who are raised in an indifferent or inattentive way. Spitz reported that when the relationship between mother and infant was optimal, (i.e., there was tender, loving care of the infant), genital play was present in all infants in his study. In fact, autoerotic activity on the part of an infant in the first 18 months of life may be a reliable indicator of the adequacy of parenting according to Spitz. The highly emotional and physiologically charged interaction of parents and infants is an important phase in a child's sexual development."

[...]

"During the first year of life, there is progression in an infant's discovery of its body and its exploration of parts of the body, including the genitals. The fingering or simple pleasurable handling of the genitals is referred to as genital play. Infants in their first year are generally not capable of the direct, volitional, rhythmic movement that characterizes masturbation, while genital play requires little coordination and begins as early as the second half of the first year of life. The greater autoerotic satisfaction climaxing in orgasm depends largely on rhythmic, repetitive movement. Rhythmic manipulation of the genitals involving use of the hands does not generally begin until the child is approximately two and one-half or three years old, probably because small muscle control is not well enough developed earlier, yet Kinsey reported on one seven-month-old infant and five infants under age one who were observed masturbating."

"Large muscle control involving muscles used in rocking or in rubbing against persons or objects is well enough coordinated by six months of age to make such masturbatory activity possible. Many infants form a pattern of rocking that is more rhythmic and repeated than is possible in manual genital play. Once the infant is able to sit up, many types of rocking may be observed which appear to bring satisfaction. Some infants sit and sway rhythmically, some lift the trunk and pelvis and bounce up and down off the surface on which they are sitting. Elevating to hands and knees and rocking forward and backward appears to be most frequent and is not uncommon as early as six to twelve months. Rocking infants are not as easily distracted from what they are doing as are infants engaged in genital play."

[...]

"Children as young as age two are mobile and prosocial in their sensual and sexual lives, as well as being autoerotic. Healthy children show strong affection toward parents, and kissing, cuddling, and hugging parents and other children and adults are common. On the other hand, abused toddlers are more likely to avoid eye contact with adults and to respond negatively or to ignore friendly overtures and adult caring approaches."

[...]

(The text highlighting below was added by the contributor for emphasis and was NOT part of the original document)

"Children depend on adults, therefore how they are expected to behave sexually depends on the values and norms guiding the thoughts and actions of their parents and others. The sexual socialization of infants and young children in the United States has been largely the responsibility of their mothers throughout the 20th century. Generally, her task has been to discourage sexual self-stimulation, inhibit sexual impulses toward family members, supervise and thus frustrate attempts at sexual play with peers, and teach children to be wary of strangers. Her task, generally with the full support of her husband, includes information control. The family attempts to govern how, when, and how many of the "facts of life" the child learns. As part of the conspiracy of silence, parents maintain a secrecy and privacy concerning their own sexual activity. Sears indicates a number of methods used as aids to sexual control in the home (e.g., closed bedroom doors, separate sleeping arrangements for each child, separate bathing, and early modesty training). Such methods have an implicit goal of keeping dormant the young child's pervasive curiosity and imitativeness, postponing the onset of sexual self-gratification, and limiting sexual activity."

"Many families refrain from giving proper names or give no names to the genital organs and genital activity as a way of controlling information. Another form of mislabeling is to unwittingly, or wittingly, characterize a child's sexual activity in a nonsexual way, by suggesting that a child playing with its genitals needs to go to the bathroom, for instance. Controlling sexual observation and experience and nonlabeling or mislabeling have the effect of keeping sexual thoughts and fantasy unfocused, imprecise, and incorrect. As far as Sears and associates could judge, no mother in their study labeled genital activity as sexual activity or encouraged it. Twenty years later, Yates still found no one reenforcing children's sexuality, nor were parents transmitting enthusiasm, providing direction, or aiding in the development of a firm erotic base for their children's sexual lives."

"Some change toward greater openness is occurring, however. For example, at least seven books published in the United States during the 1980s instructed parents how to educate their children about sexuality and how to deal with their children's sexuality. In general, the authors recognize that children are sexual and that sexual development and sexual expression are normal characteristics of childhood."

[...]

"It has been the American practice to move offspring as rapidly as possible from a proximal, analogic mode of touching, holding, and caressing to a distal and digital mode in which interaction can be performed at a distance: looking at, smiling, and vocalizing. Children are socialized away from body contact with self as well as with others. According to one researcher, the American child-rearing climate is one of weaning before age two, consistent positive reinforcement of self-reliance and achievement, the encouragement of male physical aggression, lower status for the female child, the use of supernatural forces to elicit moral behavior, and culturally sanctioned physical violence in disciplining children."

[...]

"Many children still, as young adults, remember their mother's restricted expressiveness--asexual, sexually repressive, or even sexually punitive. Mother's own sexuality is hardly perceived at all. According to Finkelhor, mothers were perceived by the children as holding a greater number of sexually repressive attitudes than their fathers and were over twice as likely as fathers to punish their daughters for masturbating, playing sex games, or asking sex questions."

[...]

"That infants and small children have the physiological capacity for sexual response, that they are curious about their bodies and the bodies of others, that they are attracted to intimate interaction with others have all been established. With a permissive environment, modeling, encouragement, and stimulation, there appears to be no cessation of sensual and sexual activity from first discovery and on through life. The question for any society is: Is there such a thing as age-appropriate sexual behavior for children? There is no agreement on the answer to that question in American society. There is one universal norm of child sexuality that is accepted by all responsible adults; namely, that children should not be sexually abused. Beginning in 1962 with the report on a study on battered children, it came to be recognized that there are parents who abuse their own children, including sexual abuse, and that measures must be taken to protect the child and prevent the abuse. That universal norm does not take one very far in understanding age-appropriate sexual behavior, however. In fact, rational discussion of age-appropriate sexual behavior and research on human sexual development have scarcely begun."

Provided by the resident student of female childhood orgasms.

Do you think it's true a woman might grow to be frigid, having no special sensation from her clitoris or vagina, as a direct result of never having fondled herself during early development?

By using the words "... no special sensation from her clitoris or vagina ..." I'm going to assume you mean no stimulation rather than a physical lack of a nervous response. If, however, you mean the ability for a woman to sense stimulation and take pleasure from that stimulus, then that's a completely different issue and would require a medical explanation rather than an investigation of female childhood orgasm.

From the research I've done there appears to be evidence that women who denied their sexuality, were forced to deny it through doctrine or parental instruction, or suffered sexual abuse before puberty, will have a reduced tendency to enjoy clitoral stimulation because of guilt, lack of awareness, or embarrassment. If that's called "frigid", then your question could be answered "yes". Like all generalized statements, though, there are plenty of caveats, so don't take my word for it. Only a complete analysis of your own may provide a more accurate determination.

will too much fondling create a nymphomaniac woman?

Rather than turning a LG into a nymphomaniac, ongoing gentle clitoral stimulation as a developing child seems to promote a more relaxed emotional sensibility toward accepting digital and/or oral masturbation as a young woman and adult. It appears those women enjoy orgasms more fully, at an earlier age, and develop a sense of acceptance regarding having orgasms either through self-masturbation or allowing a partner to assist.

A number of parents interviewed during some child-sex studies admitted to a more relaxed attitude in their child to self or assisted masturbation after the adults had displayed sexual intimacy, including intercourse, in front of their daughters. A few fathers were subsequently asked by their daughters to make them feel good just as the fathers had their mommies, and one father admitted to digitally and then orally stimulating his preschool daughter after she insisted multiple times to both of the child's parents. Another child [purportedly] asked to participate in the "mommy and daddy fun" once she was old enough. I don't think I need to say which kind of fun the LG thought that was.

Given evidence of only one or very few circumstances of a LG's desire to be included in clitoral stimulation, as a result of interviews during the mentioned studies, I wouldn't consider that a trend, but it certainly proves that a LG [in general] is capable of not only feeling sexual pleasure but thinking far enough ahead to consider the ultimate in intimacy with her own daddy. Whether a vast majority of LG's enjoy orgasms before puberty is still not been proved, but there's enough empirical evidence to suggest that number is much higher than most people might believe.

Remember ... this is by NO means a truly complete scientific study or analysis. However, from what I have learned I'd dare say there is a greater majority of LG's who enjoy clitoral stimulation at a very early age than most adults might care to admit, and if allowed to investigate their own bodies and sexuality in an intelligent and careful manner [with some parental guidance] those LG's are not intimidated, afraid, nor immature about sex when the subject comes up in their normal social development. Having orgasms appears to be easier and more likely in those LG's who either experimented by themselves or were assisted in some manner.

Whether preschool or preteen masturbation and subsequent orgasms turns LG's into sluts or nymphomaniacs isn't known, and I wouldn't encourage anyone to do any specific research, either. The laws are currently very harsh and inflexible.

Grown-ups just don't remember how strong that childhood curiosity really was.

Isn't it possible that parents and grown-ups DO remember how strong that childhood curiosity can be? Why else would they try so hard to deny their own or other parents' children the same sort of pleasure they themselves had many years before?

Yet another of my mantras is the word "hypocrisy". I wish people [who are against GL] would quit lying to themselves and everyone else. Many of us have a clear understanding of LG pleasure, even if we don't actively pursue or participate in it. It's just natural.

In Bill Bryson's book: A Short History of Nearly Everything he recounts 2 or more instances were early french explorers ran off with 10 or 12 yo native girls in South America.

Running off with young aboriginal girls was probably a fairly recurrent theme for many colonialists or explorers around the world, even if nobody else wrote about it or tried to hide what they did.

There were a number of explorers who ventured into the South Pacific in wooden sailing ships and took advantage of the "hospitality" provided by the younger female natives. One very famous book and movie recounted a mutiny that occurred aboard the British Royal Navy ship HMS Bounty on 28 April 1789. The colony on Pitcairn Island was established with Fletcher Christian, eight other crewmen, six Tahitian men, and 11 women, one with a baby.

(from http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2008/01/pitcairn200801)

The news that has come off the rock in the last decade shocked the world and tainted the myth [of escape, freedom, and the dream of paradise in the South Seas]. In 2004, six men -- a third of the island's adult male population, including Pitcairn mayor Steve Christian, a direct descendant of Fletcher Christian -- had been convicted under English law of 33 sexual offenses, some dating back as many as 40 years. The trials had been held in a makeshift courtroom on Pitcairn. At the Privy Council, on July 10, 2006, the prisoners were appealing those convictions.

Headlines around the world had focused on the criminal case: Pitcairn's Cloud of Vice. But a more dramatic story lay buried in the thousands of pages piled high on a table partly shielding the Privy Council lords from the commoners facing them.

For most of its history, Pitcairn lived with a secret sex culture that defined island life. Adultery was not just routine but pervasive, as was the sexual fondling of infants and socially approved sex games among young children. Incest and prostitution were not unknown. The criminal charges stemmed from a longtime island practice of "breaking in" girls as young as 10.

The legal case had dragged on for eight years and threatened the island's survival. Sharp divisions existed over Mother England's fairness in forcing the weight of English law onto a tiny population as isolated and lost in time as Pitcairn's. Colleen McCullough, the Australian author of The Thorn Birds and wife of a well-known Pitcairn descendant, harshly criticized the British for prosecuting what even the Foreign Office grudgingly conceded was a "cultural trait." She said, "It's Polynesian to break your girls in at 12."

Consider what the native LG's must have thought of the outsiders who were bold enough to go where no outsider had gone before. They might have been eager to wrest themselves from a restrictive or dull future in a small and/or tightly controlled environment. At least with a naughty older man in a far-away place the indigenous LG's could see and experience things that they'd never have imagined before.

Try to see this from the native LG's perspective and you may begin to understand the depth of their attraction for a stranger in a strange land. The attraction the men had for the native girls was obvious, even after so many years.

Ideally there would be nothing wrong with bringing a child to orgasm. It is a pleasurable feeling that many enjoy so why not kids too?

Based on my ... research it appears there are many who don't agree with that, although it's difficult to locate specific tenets that address LG's and masturbation.

Christianity does not consider masturbation to be sinful, per se, but there is a tendency to consider it wrong if outside of marriage and not shared with a spouse.

(from http://carm.org/masturbation)

"If masturbation involves sexual fantasies and/or pornography, then it is certainly not pure and is very sinful. The Bible clearly teaches that our minds are as important to God as our bodies are and that we are to remain pure in both. Jesus said, You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery'; but I say to you, that everyone who looks on a woman to lust for her has committed adultery with her already in his heart, (Matt. 5:27-28). Jesus is saying that thinking lustful thoughts is sinful. Therefore, masturbation involving sexual fantasies (at least not of one's spouse) is undoubtedly sinful."

I've read some genuinely interesting views about masturbation and orgasm from people who claim to be devoutly religious Christians. I've also read some typically narrow-minded opinions based on self-denial and one night's worth of pleasure versus an afterlife of eternal rapture if temptation is suppressed. I can't find any specific information at the moment about child sexuality in the bible, but based on what I've found the act of sex and the sharing of sexual pleasure [through masturbation and orgasm] is supposed to be limited to a married man and woman during procreation. No lower ages of the married man and woman were located, although I've heard from one source that Mary was a preteen and Joseph was only a few years older. Someone is sure to correct me fairly quickly on that point.

The only religions completely against sex are Shakers who say people can't experience any sexual experience at all, while Buddhism, like Christianity, says sex is only to have children, and Jains (Jainism) believe they must have sex only with the person they are married to, avoid sexual indulgence even with that person, and must give up sex, if possible, after the marriage has yielded a son.

Islam shares hypocritical views about children, specifically LG's, and sexual pleasure. Although they believe it's acceptable for an older man to marry a much younger LG and expect her to provide for his satisfaction, I can't find anything specific about providing for her pleasure.

Because of the reverence for children and the belief that children are born pure Neopagans do not approve of any form of child abuse. An extension of that concept is sexuality with children or the introduction of sexual pleasure for and with a child.

Wiccans believe that children and minors are not acceptable sexual partners and are never sexually propositioned.

Your mileage will vary, but it appears this is going to be a VERY tough battle if we're hoping to share any belief that girl love is natural and acceptable, even with the LG's consent.

This is the extent of the posted research. More investigations are forthcoming ... uhhh, ahead.