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Re: A Lesson for Ethan: The Male Gaze

Posted by Dante on Saturday, October 25 2014 at 0:51:51PM
In reply to Re: A Lesson for Ethan: The Male Gaze posted by EthanEdwards on Wednesday, October 22 2014 at 4:05:41PM

"Grown women do in fact know that men will look at them, and most become used to it. If they say to some impartial acquaintance, "I caught him glancing at my rear end and my chest, isn't that awful?" they will NOT agree that it's truly awful."

I never said otherwise.

I just said that the guy they feel free to confide in because he "doesn't look" in fact, does look.

There are enough openly leering to merit it as fact.

But the idea that the look itself will be detected, which are the words you put in a girl's mouth, is just not my experience. I believe that every decent guy has similarly gone through life looking while receiving continued proof that as far as anyone else is concerned, they weren't.

To put it bluntly, if I'm checking out the *ss of some young woman who later assumes that my talk about foreign films means I'm gay; then I can assume that the blatant heterosexuality of the gaze went unnoticed.

All guys know this.

"Society is certainly a pedo exceptionalist, and that matters greatly when we discuss iatrogenic harm."

"not EVERYONE is caught peeking"

"This is true. But a lot of people are caught. And the consequences in this case if it makes it into her description of what happened are potentially serious in terms of an investigation. I think the chances are high of an investigation even if she says instead, "He is careful never to look at my private parts"."


And THERE we have a damn fine argument why pedo parents like you and me should never be allowed near girls at any time under any circumstances.

"Who knows that he's not checking her out THAT way?" ( Even when clothed. )

"He might be outed."

"This could result in her being subject to rape by rape kit."

So all pedos must cease all interactions with girls immediately.

Only one flaw. The hidden assumptions about motives ( your MO ) doesn't need REAL pedos to be applied. All male caregivers are suspect.

AND this is already happening. And we've seen the price when an injured child is untouched by men who are fearful of being assumed to be "stranger danger" by virtue of caring.

They will actually give a wide berth to a girl in distress. This wasn't something commonly observed before the hysteria your statement endorses. But it is now.

Society is wrong in this. And fortunately for my girls and yours not every pedo is paranoid enough to assume that social standards which assume the worst out of handholding or a fatherly peck on the cheek merit recusal from acting in the expressed interests of the child.

Of course there are many subgroups that make up a diverse society.

Kids come under fire from being raised with nonconforming values. But in my experience, being raised as an Atheist is a greater source of assumed harm to a child than whether a parent kissed their child or just how long they take to wean a very young child, or whether a prepubescent can choose for themself when they want solo bathtime.

( G12 is very much on-target for her age to be something of a "fairness Nazi' who believes that everything ought to be a particular way. That is the age where "selfishness" gives way to a concern for others and logical thinking begins to enter the picture, but where RL exceptions ought not tarnish the newfound "rules" governing how others bathe, why boys should have short hair, why smoking should not be a choice.

G9, OTOH, would be a bit freakishly precocious if she was THAT body self-conscious at that age.

Just as my girls were "fairness Nazis" at approx 11 and 12, they were private, but not fastidiously so at 9. and as yet not assuming that hugs and other affectionate contact are reserved for only the most significant and limited relationships. Within two years, Ellen would never have accidentally flashed her mum and I. But also by then she no longer wanted to wrestle, nor to have an adult flinging her around in the pool.

12 year old sisters judge 9 year old sisters. And its not always through the "wisdom" of hindsight, but because its the 12 year olds job to be embarrassed for the young because they're reminded of their own youth.

[ Nobody HATES Barney & Friends with the passion of a tween. ] )

"And in turn I estimate that your level of contact with reality is quite low, with ideology largely trumping objectivity. And Mr. Hyde is just a mean, vindictive man."

I've actually been a parent.

Your statements about what girls want when they freely choose and about how their choices should be evaluated tell me that "reality" is a political non-starter for you which would set your goals back.

Your PR stance trumps any engagement with reality.

And you evince little concern for the fallout that your "bogeyman" assumptions have on the lives of real girls let alone on other pedos.

But again, thanks for letting me take a trip down memory lane. Its been too dang long since real girls were a presence in my household.

Dante

Dante





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