Bait only works on the hungry

I can't believe you are this cynical. I had little to do with any of my grandparents but from what I have seen most grandparents love their grandchildren for who they are. They tend to spoil them with their affection and little presents because they love them.

Thanking you for taking my bait, sir. Yes, I agree, but so do we. That doesn't mean that either grandparents or ourselves are entirely innocent of trying to win the child's affection in our own way though. Do you think grandparents just give their grandkids stuff because it's something to do? Hell no! They want to keep them happy, which will assure that the kids will want to come over and see them again. Ah, but when WE do that, it's grooming.

Motivation may vary but from what I have observed, grandparents mostly indulge their grandchildren because they love them and nothing else. They are the givers of affection rather than the receivers, but of course most kids who have good relations with their grandparents do respond with affection. They mostly do not have an ulterior motive as you are want to perceive, not from my perspective in the UK that is. I know things may be different in the US.

They also are not in the position, mostly, of their parents who have to discipline them sometimes and hence will not always apear as 'loving'.

But even so, many parents I know aren't spilling over with affection for their children. I'm not saying they don't care about their kids, but a lot of them seem to take it for granted that kids will love them. They never stop to think that the kids rely on them for their very existence and so obviously they are going to love their parents. Maybe most parents DO realize that, and that's why they are so controlling of their children. At any rate, I know parents talk about unconditional love, but I've yet to see any of them demonstrate it. Most parents place demands on their children for a variety of reasons, not all of them for the benifit of the child.

Come on, how many kids are aware of anything that their parents have to do for them? I am sure I am no different from most others here, it was only at a certain age that I felt a need to help my mum with the shopping for example. Mostly I was in my own personal world and expected food on the table, clean clothes, bed made etc, like anyone else. Children are incredibly selfish until they realise that the world does not revolve around them. Some unfortunately never realise this until much too late.

Children will no doubt suck up to their grandparents, they wouldn't be children otherwise would they? I think children give their affection quite willingly, a few presents etc. doesn't do any harm however, they take advantage.

Precisely. Children are masters of manipulating those who love them, which is why they tend to get so many gifts and treats from us MAAs. They know how to pull our heartstrings to get what they want. Innocent my ass. ;^)

Some are experts but not all, girls mainly have to go through this stage because ultimately they will be the ones on the side of the attraction equation and we are on the side of the attracted. And I don't tend to use the word 'innocent' lightly either, since I don't see them as such.

Moth

ps. I hope work is going well for you.