lgsinmyheart, we know that perverted justice does a lot of bad things with the information. they will spread the fliers around the persons home, they will call the job and get the person fired.

Neither of which is illegal. That is what I mean. What is more, in cases like GC / BC posters, where no illegal activity takes place, they might publish the details of persons who are NOT the real posters. For instance:

Poster in a board: "Sure, mail me to poster000@fastmail"
Poster through mail: "Yeah my real name is Ron Tebo and I am in such-and-such state"
Next, pjer looks through that state's phonebook and finds 4 name matches. Using social networks, common guesses as to possible mail accounts, and any additional info they might have got about the poster through previous contact, they decide the poster must be Name Match 1 and target him.
Just that Poster really is Name Match 3.
This would be possible with a GC / BC poster because their standards of proof for them are lower than for those who they entrap through exchange of kp or requests to meet - precisely because they know people from GC and BC are less likely to engage in either, and even if they do, more likely NOT to do it until after years and years of other innocuous off board contact.

Even in this case, while it would be false information, they would easily escape prosecution because 1) the volunteers did it, not philip and 2) to prove it's false, then Name Match 1 would have to prove they are NOT Poster - proof in the negative which is logically impossible.

Of course, if they got the match right and could positively prove it, nothing illegal has happened. It is not by itself illegal to post anyone's information.

do u think they can ever be sued for such a thing? i believe the problem is that they use anonymous volunteers to do those things, and ruin the persons life based on the wikisposure information.

Part of the problem is that - the delegating responsibility to their volunteers. They are not part of the terrorist organisation, nor directly in its payroll, so they're not directly liable.

Another part of the problem is that, while they reveal the information, they cannot be held liable for what everyone else does. If they call your job and your employer fires you, the person responsible is your employer*. If they call your family or your neighbours or your friends and they start taking actions against you, again, the responsible in court are those persons, not whoever gave them the information.

(* Today the employer would have an easy time justifying their firing you. This could change if / when paedophilia is protected as a sexual orientation, in which case the employer would be unable to fire you with relation to pj information if it doesn't include illegal actions by you.)

do u think that a court in the usa can force pj to turn over their private forum pages? i bet any money that pj not only know about the actions of their volunteers, but that they endorse it and encourage it on their forums. i bet they tell their people in private to call and harass the people on the wikisposure page.

They can?? Of course they can!!

Will they?? I doubt it.

I only see them ordering that in these handful of cases:

- Outing a member of the Armed Forces or the intelligence community who is key in the War on Terror - say, General Petraeus.
- Reasons related to the War on Terror - an attack being planned inside pj; including fears that pj has been infiltrated by terrorist groups.
- Reasons related to the War on Drugs - drug deals being negotiated inside pj; including fears that pj has been infiltrated by foreign drug lords.
- Reasons related to white collar crimes with ramifications for the whole American economy - outing of a tycoon, especially from the oil, banks, media, military and airspace industries; OR extensive planning of white collar crimes inside pj (say, another Enron, or a record money laundering racket*).
- Outing (and especially harassing and deathwishes) of a foreign head of state or government with crucial links to American interests, economy, international security or the War on Terror - Canada, Colombia, Britain, France, Germany, Russia, Egypt, Israel, Palestine-Fatah, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Iraq-US backed govt, Pakistan, India, China, Taiwan, South Korea, Japan and Australia.

* It is extremely easy to launder money with pj. Laughably easy. If I did have a money laundering need, they'd be the very first people I'd contact, as a matter of fact.

do u think that if they were sued, that the private forum can be exposed so people can see how they really operate?

While yes...

I don't think this is the most important thing.

I do think that most people quietly agree with them; but I think that that is because of how disinformed they are regarding us and regarding children too. That cannot be solved just by exposing their methods.

Exposing their methods would only make people question whether the end justifies the means - and I trust many people will answer No. But I don't trust that that would mean a general change of attitude towards us - just a rejection of the methods currently applied to catch us.

That is why I have always thought that outright confrontation with them in the legal arenas is not a priority. If, rather, we change what people think about us, THEN pj will fall behind and be seen as the hate-based terrorist organisation it really is.

That of course doesn't mean we should let ourselves be outed against our wishes, of course.

what can we do really do to stop them? i would like to know what u think about all this.

Short of stealing all their computers (lol), change what society thinks about us.

That's how their actions will stop being justifiable in the eyes of others.

For those living outside the USA, a little more can be done: help prevent the establishement of sister organisations in your country; help prevent international pj operations from taking place in your country; create noise for them in the form of planting information about yourself or any random number of real or fictional paeds in your country; and include their addies when forwarding any chain mail you receive, the moreso if it is not in English. Oh and yeah, if philip shows up in your city, make him feel as unwelcome as you can... racist invectives allowed.