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Re: They already are, redcocoa101....

Posted by Markaba on 2012-May-19 02:59:23 EDT, Saturday
In reply to Re: They already are, redcocoa101.... posted by GL_in_lyrics on 2012-May-19 02:14:28 EDT, Saturday
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I just made a thread about it. Posted it just a few minutes ago.

I saw that, but I haven't gotten round to reading it yet.

As I say in the thread, I understand that some members would be against child marriage. Still, that does not change the reality of the anti-pedophile reasons being used to stop these marriages.

To me the anti-pedophile argument is irrelevant. What matters is that the girls generally do not consent to it. their feelings don't matter; it's whatever the groom and the girl's parents come to decide for her. I am for empowering children. Even if they seem to agree to it, their views must be weighed against their legal and cultural status. It is highly probable they have been coerced into agreeing, and if they have no legal or fundamental right to say no, then they also have no legal or fundamental right to say yes.

Most/all of the same arguments are used as when making laws against pedophilia and child/adult relations in general. It is very much the same issue. You don't see the Feminists involved in this saying "Let's stop these marriages, but we'll allow relations between men and girls, and we won't persecute men who like little girls".

No, these are not the same issue at all. First off, men who marry young girls frequently live apart from the bride until she reaches an age when she can be impregnated. The men involved here generally aren't pedophiles; they are making an investment in a situation which will be fruitful for them later. Secondly, you are poisoning the well here. Just because "feminists" might be against consensual adult-child sexual contact, that does not then validate everything else they are against. That's much too simplistic. They can be right on some issues and wrong on others.

If this is a choosing the "lesser evil" thing, then this "lesser evil" is just being used to fuel more evil in an even larger agenda.

False dilemma. If I'm given a list of ideologically related items divided into 'yes' and 'no' boxes, there is no reason why, if I select 'yes' on one or more of them, I then have to select 'yes' all the way down the line. I am not an ideologue. My basis for choosing right or wrong regarding any particular moral/ethical issue is weighed on its terms, not whether someone else is against it, and certainly not whether someone is against something related to it.

And I still don't see why anybody has the right to go into another culture and try changing it, just because you view yours as superior. I touched upon this in my post which you replied to.

It depends on what you mean by "go into" and "change"--generally speaking, I would agree that we have no right to go into another culture and change it by force. There are exceptions to this rule. If a substantial number of people in that culture hold to a belief system which has as part of its sacred/religious or legal doctrine to kill or convert anyone who does not adhere to that doctrine, then I have the right to view that as a threat, particularly if that doctrine is fundamentally opposed to free thought by design. If elements of that culture then invade my culture and attempt to impose that doctrine through the mechanisms of law or force, then I have the right retaliate.

And yes, some cultures are superior to others. Those cultures which most value free thought, free speech, free association, the consent of the governed, etc. are superior to those which do not. Some people who adhere to the principles of those inferior cultures will try to convince you that your culture is "just as bad" or worse than theirs so they can break down your resistance to their ultimate aim of indoctrinating you into their belief system. Don't buy it. They will argue that in reality your culture has less freedom than theirs--this is sophistry and utter bullshit. You can weigh this objectively by creating a list of rights and freedoms and going down the list checking which cultures most uphold those values.

I think you can see where I'm going with this. Many Islamic cultures, where you're most likely to find young girls married to older males, have far fewer rights for females then ours do, and indeed far fewer rights for everyone. I have no desire to live in or be associated with any culture where women and girls require a number of witnesses to have their rape be taken seriously, or where they can be put to death for adultery on the word of their husband. Or where girls and women are required to cover themselves head to toe and can be beaten like dogs for looking at another man. Or where I am forced to grow a beard, pray to Allah five times a day, and to proclaim myself a Muslim or face execution as an infidel. With all due respect, fuck that noise.

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