The thing is, I do believe the very insular and isolated nuclear family unit does need to be accountable to the greater community.



How? Are you accountable to the wider community as a paedophile? Yes you are accountable to the law, but that's not the community.



Emotional abuse is a severe and largely overlooked problem



I wouldn't deny that, but to police and criminalise this area is very hard, and will lead to more harm than good, because as you concede..



I'm concerned about these State Appointed Guardians, as I worry they will simply become a third parent of sorts, rather than a true objective voice for children to air their legitimate grievances with.



So they have an agenda, and not one which tallies with my outlook or I feel your own outlook.



Children need a voice and a committee to hear their grievances,



Agreed. Pink Party!!!



so if they are unhappy and subject to emotional abuse, then they can leave the home in question. That's what youth lib is all about.



Really? Well, Frank Furedi, (who is one of the very very few voices this side of the pond to frequently speak out against paedo-hysteria) says it's about a self-serving agenda to facilitate the predilections of some adults.. at least, he said that as regards the classic child liberation movement of the 70's, including PIE.



However this isn't the 70's, and whilst I would not subscribe to the old PIE agenda.. I do profess a healthy girllove from which the desire for change stems from, and i've brought this to the board for respectful and robust debate this past week. There is a need for reform, where kids can have a voice independent of both the state and stakeholder agencies on the one hand, and the nuclear family on the other hand. Because I agree with you on this, that neither parents or the state can always be trusted to act in kids best interests.. nor the wider mainstream community either. But community can take many forms and mean many things to many people, just as the definition of family varies widely.



Um, Alice, are you aware from reading my posts that I'm a youth liberationist, not a parental power advocate? Many others here are also, which I would imagine you should have gleaned from reading the recent posts. There were many youth libbers here during your previous tenure on the board years ago too, including me, if you recall. It's fine that you think differently..



No, it's a rhetorical device, more to highlight the level of state and outside intrusion into peoples lifes, rather than unconditional approval of the nuclear family. As I said, controlling instrusive bastards come in many forms, whether, family, workplace, school, community, or services. They just want to invent problems which don't exist and then 'help'. As Pink Floyd sang............ Hey Teacher, leave them kids alone...



Speaking for myself, Alice, I have never been seeking a Carrollian kind of GL regarding young adolescent girls, but a full, unabashed emancipation agenda



Good luck with that...



where they have control over their own lives, the right to vote, a mutually respectful relationship with their parents, and the right to choose full romantic relationships. I wish the same thing for children, who I believe have much more potential than they are currently allowed to achieve or express. I seek to earn the trust of all society that MAPs are decent people, but the trust of parents, as important as that would be to me, would always be secondary in importance to the trust of their kids.



Don't you feel that in order to "earn" trust towards reaching some of your more achievable goals, there has to be some self-reflection revision and compromise? Some acceptance that not a lot of inroads are being made, things are getting darker and more censorious, and a fresh approach is needed, no? Because at the moment, where you are, and where mainstream society is on the issue of children, is a million miles apart. There is no dialogue taking place. Just polarised positions - with society (thanks to media and political scaremongering granted) consequently having a largely erroneous negative and distorted impression of those who profess girllove. Without change, not only are you limiting your own cause, but equally importantly failing to help and reach out to those millions of people who hide repress or misunderstand thier feelings.. because there is nowhere for them to turn, neither to GC or VP; One approves of sex, the other is guilty about sex, but there are millions for whom that is not what girllove is about.