"You misunderstand (on purpose?). If you worked at a car factory in a true Marxian system, you wouldn't "only" be entitled to items produced by that particular factory, and from that particular industry. You would do your share of the useful societal work at that factory, but you would have full access to the general social store, which would entail the full fruit of your labor produced by all industries, e.g., food, a home, communications technology, access to medical care, access to recreational facilities, etc. The same with every other worker under that global system."

qtns understands - you do not.

You remind me of a discussion I had with a boy I knew when I was in my single digits. He was several years older than me, and had previously lived with his parents at a commune where his father was still living. His father, he explained to me, was very wealthy. You see, at this commune everyone was equal, and everyone was provided for equally from the common production. However, they found that not everyone wanted the same things, and they found that not everybody was working equally hard, and there was never enough for everyone - so they made up some certificates to indicate how much work each person had performed, which could be redeemed for what had been commonly produced based on how much time it had taken to produce it. What was even better, these certificates could only be used within the commune to assure that this value never left the commune and therefore supported the community. Now, this still had some problems, because they soon discovered that everyone wanted to do the easy, pleasant work, but no one wanted to do difficult or unpleasant work - so they decided that they would give twice as many certificates to anyone who would do difficult or unpleasant work. His father had become very wealthy by taking out the garbage! His father had a large pile of these certificates that he had never used, because there was nothing the commune produced that he wanted to redeem them for, but he could redeem them any time he liked!

I pointed out to him that the commune had reinvented money, except that it was worse because it was worthless outside the commune. He was not happy with me for saying that, and told me I just didn't understand.

I learned several things that day - one of which was that wisdom is independent of age. I don't know if his father ever figured out where they had gone wrong (I never met the man). I have read that that commune made considerable modifications over the years, and as a result it is one of the few from that era that has survived and even prospered to a small degree - but along the way the population has changed entirely several times over - none of the founders remain.

I know that qtns, I, and others have explained these things to you often enough, so I am doubtful that you will ever understand what we are saying. At this point I make these points for others who may come across our conversations more than for you - and I just remember that you are intelligent and capable in other fields. I believe that everyone has at least one blind spot, and I know I have a few areas where I have to trust the opinions of others. I figure economics is your chief blind spot, and I suspect you think the same about me.

I would hope that you would consider how exactly to make your system work - how to make sure that everyone took what they needed but no more, how to make sure the producers knew how much of which goods to make, how to get the goods from where they were produced to where they were needed, how to make sure workers knew about new products that could fulfil their needs better than the old products, how to manage this whole system. All of these things have significant costs that most people never think about - but at least a couple of those problems are solved by money, because the use of money provides feedback to let producers know how much to produce and where to apply their resources; and money prevents workers from stripping the shelves bare at the first chance; and money incentivizes workers to do the work that is difficult or hazardous or unpleasant but really needs to be done - which is probably why no society that has advanced beyond the stone age does not have money in some form.

If you can come up with a better system, have at it - but know that a lot of smart people have tried this before you, and they keep coming back to money. You might do well to have a successful pilot project behind you before advocating for a moneyless system.




Baldur