I dunno, I've always liked powerful classic cars. I didn't realize that made me a bad person, though I have nothing against public transportation as long as it doesn't roll through my neighborhood (I've seen the changes it brought to a part of blue land, let's just say). It's logical for urban areas and for long distance travel I suppose. I have nothing against electric cars either.

Children make good decisions for themselves once they have the mental tools to do so. How would you go about equipping them to do so?

We might have a more fundamental disagreement here, Dissident. As times have changed in our national and global political structure and realities that were formerly hidden from the public become exposed, I seem to be questioning some of my former views as a consequence of these changes.

As I think you probably know, I was all about Bernie in 2016. I saw Hillary shamelessly and illegally fix the nomination for herself, and then I watched the Bern shrug and say "Oh, well." That entire left-right system is broken and corrupted. After that, I was glad to see Trump come in as the bull in the china shop that he is, and hopefully clearing out a swamp that's angry they weren't able to fix the election and now exposes itself for what it is and always was, apparently since the days of Eisenhower. I always sorta knew it, but it's been a little tough wrapping my head around that, as it has been for many people. The Left vs. Right thing has been little more than a ruse to keep people divided, and I assure you, there is a point that brings this back to kids and their right to make choices for themselves.

Have you taken the time to realize that even kids who make their own choices are going to be making choices in accordance to what information and bias is being fed to them? You've read some of the stuff I have, and so you know that even a large swath of adults are fed bullshit to sway them toward a particular viewpoint. Oh, it's a big story these days, but you and I were talking about that, what, 15 years ago?

So in order for kids to not be making decisions on false pretext, don't we need to first figure out how to make sure they aren't being used as pawns? I'm gladly willing to make that include pedosexuals who want sex as well as those who believe child-adult intimacy is wrong and damaging in every instance. How do we equip them with the skills to decipher truth from bullshit and deep seeded paranoia about sex?

They're ALREADY being used as political pawns, whether it be kids taken to political demonstrations at an age when they certainly haven't made their own conclusion on a complex issue yet and won't for many more years, to oh, pick a political issue on the right and left... defending automatic weapons on the right, or becoming an 8 or as a GC poster linked me to once, a confused 9-year-old drag queen on the left as one "Lactacia" apparently did with the encouragement of his(?) parents. You may approve that such a thing degrades the existing family structure of a system you don't approve of, but when I look at it, I see a dark transgender future for someone who still hasn't even hit puberty. When I say dark, I'm talking about check the suicide rates for transgenders for example. It's not a hopeful future to have. And it might be another form of this indoctrination you speak of, even if it is an example of dismantling things that you know need to take place in order to rebuild things the way you'd prefer.

I sorta see it as abusive to immerse one's kids into the particular political viewpoint that happens to be held by the adults around them, and I don't particularly see how giving them the right make their own decisions is going to mean they are now free to do so. Where on earth do kids today or even historically, not have to obey parental rules? I guess in North Korea there's orphans who are basically molded into ardent supporters of the state and their dear leader, but I wonder how happy they really are. Maybe they are, I don't know.

I've never been so big on dismantling the family as I've believed there was a way to make a role for child lovers to have a positive impact on a child's upbringing. It seems to me that this is a sticking point where you and I seem to diverge, and while it was always there, political realities might be bringing it to the forefront more than they used to.


My problem is the constant marginalization of the pro-choice view and its near-total banishment from "polite" political and academic circles

This is a concern for me as well. In spite of the potential pitfalls I express above, I deeply believe there's a way to make kids properly informed enough, along with removing the stigma and shame and labels like "lost innocence" or "broken" for life just for having engaged consensually in intimacy with someone older than them who was also having honest feelings in return.

We may not have much a problem here. I don't stand in alliance with Ethan's views, but as a fairly well-proven actual lover of girls, I felt it important to support his right to express his views here. Of course, finding out he doesn't allow free speech from all girl lovers at HIS place sorta made him look like a hypocrite in my eyes, but hey, that shouldn't mean we don't allow him here. He takes his share of low swipes, but as I proved a few days ago, we're all prone to doing that once in a while.


Nuclear family unit. This is something I'd be up for exploring more in depth these days. I need to reach a conclusion for myself on this.

On the topic of research, there cannot be legal worries for getting data from people who have technically broken the law. This has been something very important to me, although it does differ from country to country. You cannot get an accurate picture of this attraction or how things actually rake place if you are required to report past actions to the authorities. Sometimes I wonder if this is the very reason why they are hamstrung in this way, to prevent accurate studies altogether. I remember the Rind study, and the political fiasco that science wrought upon a reelection year. Lat them do their research!

Much of your post is disagreement with Ethan. I'm glad, since I feel no need to disagree with much of what you're saying.

Have them argue for us to have the right to engage with them fair and square in the mainstream media forums as strongly as you argued for the importance of their view being expressed in our marginalized cyber-locales

I guess I'm banking on two things, Dissident. Time will tell if I was wrong, I suppose.

1- In a time when speech is starting to be censored everywhere, or more precisely, particular opinions and ideas, my humble opinion is that GC needs to buck the trend more than ever. This would naturally exclude things like allowing the wanton harm toward kids for example, or anything else strictly meant to troll or cause division as always, but I think it's important, and you do seem to agree.

2- It is my belief that most girl/child lovers who become outspoken and join forums like these are doing so because they feel betrayed and deeply misrepresented by the media and mainstream society. Having a "passionate" love for the status quo in any realm is usually far less common in my experience. There will always be others (not implicating Ethan personally) who will try to compensate and win approval by being apologists (the effort never pays off, btw), but I think we're pretty well-equipped to handle such guilt-ridden appeasers at this board, don't you, agree, Dissident?