Individual MAPs coming out to their friends can be valuable, and I've heard of such cases. All the positive outcomes I've heard of have been from anti-contact MAPs.

Then you need to start associating with more pro-choice MAPs, and with people who know and respect them. You would start having more faith in the Nons to overcome their prejudices and stereotypical assumptions to a large degree if you did, I wager. Otherwise, you will be in the same equivalent sitch as certain BLer's out there who have no idea what the GLer's think or say about anything because they've only associated with other BLer's.

I guess we can wonder about how broadly your own experience will generalize and reach different conclusions. But neither is practical for large numbers. I can't see it as a major part of a strategy for even celibate pedophile acceptance.

As Dante noted, that human face is considerably more important than your position on matters when it comes to many people. Not everyone, of course, but a surprising number. Many Nons are much, much more "on the fence" about the issue than you might think, and sometimes all it takes to get them thinking along those lines is to find out that one of the people they love and respect the most is "one of them." Many of them act so harsh because no one ever gave them a good reason to think alternative thoughts about the matter.

I agree with you. But who ever suggested any of those things? Certainly not Virtuous Pedophiles.

I mentioned the Virtuous Pedophiles position here as a yardstick, noting that even we are hated. I was not arguing its merits here. I was certainly not suggesting anyone ought to embrace the position who didn't sincerely believe it.

Thank you. Which is why we all need to accept living in a world where not everyone is going to espouse the same position.

I've never heard anyone claim that we Virtuous Pedophiles pretend to hate ourselves or our feelings. Some have claimed that we pretend to be opposed to changing society to allow adult-child sexual activity, but that is quite different, but also false.

So noted. I will say, however, that the pro-choice stance takes the principle that claiming to have no self-hatred or condemnation of your feelings, but then saying you feel your feelings would be toxic to youths in your respective AoA if expressed, is doing a disservice to the first claim. And again, it goes against both what we think, and what the scientific studies suggest. I have actually much more respect for anti-choice MAPs who say something along the lines: "I'm morally opposed to the practice, and thus the legalization of it, even if intergenerational sexual contact isn't proven to be inherently harmful to younger people."

Dissident said: And do you have evidence to back up the notion that being anti-choice decreases your chances of engaging in illegal sexual activity behind the scenes?

No, I don't, but I wouldn't make such a confident claim about anti-contact pedophiles. I wouldn't even make it about soccer moms. It will be left to readers to judge for themselves how likely they think this is in these various groups. Your claim doesn't seem fitting for one who values honesty and truth. But as I said, I fervently hope you are right.

I see it as fitting for one who values those tenets based on extensive - not casual - interaction with numerous pro-choice MAPs, both on and off the board, for over 13 years now. The majority of anti-choice MAPs do not hang around socially or even professionally in support orgs with us that often, since both sides obviously do not tend to get on well with each other. My main point is that I think it's empirically clear that an anti-choice moral stance is not necessary to decrease the chances of a MAP crossing the legal line, because there are many good reasons we can agree not to cross that line despite how we may feel about the laws and youth capabilities. I do not see any good evidence that pro-choice MAPs tend to be flagrant law breakers significantly more often than anti-choice MAPs. Conversely, there is evidence - which I pointed out - that a number of anti-choice MAPs do not privately practice what they publicly preach. That's all I'm really saying here.