What does a liberal have to offer in contrast to Dissy's "Liberation for all!" Unfortunately, a world view that sees a great many complexities shades of gray, and compromises among ideals doesn't make good copy the way a call for radical change does.

As if the pro-choicers have not made many compromises, including most of us agreeing to adhere to the laws, and to work within the system to change them. Or is that not sensible to a modern liberal? Or is working for the types of changes you don't agree with and liberals are now afraid to openly advocate for constitute "too radical" a change? The problem with modern liberals, Ethan, is that they cross the line between compromise and compromised far too often. The state of the Western world, but particularly America, over the past 35 years is ample testament to that.

I was amused to see signs at a march saying roughly, "What do we want? Incremental Improvement!" "When do we want it? In a reasonable timeframe!" They're just not the sort of rousing signs that fire up the crowds.

I don't think you'll learn the truth by listening to either of us. But I do remind you that there is a sensible, respectable liberal view that is in fact embraced by far more people than Dissy's.

In other words, it's considered "sensible" because most liberals currently adhere to it. It's considered "respectable" because it doesn't challenge the status quo to any notable extent. And capitulation to the conservative narrative and basic agenda in exchange for a continued seat at the table and a few bones thrown to them here and there is exactly what mainstream (read: "respectable") liberals have done since they become cowed shadows of their 1960s-'70s counterparts that helped establish such rapid beneficial change during that era. Before liberals began taking Steven P. Keaton as their role model.

Do you seriously think people on this board are not well aware of what "respectable" liberals of the modern age consider "sensible," and their major contributions to the current hysteria and all sorts of threats to civil liberties as a result? You need to think again, Ethan, otherwise you just insult the intelligence of everyone here.

You will most likely make your decision by indirect means. Perhaps you'll stay with the Dissy plan because it's something of a GC consensus.

And going by consensus is nothing you ever do, right, Ethan? I guess any portion of any minority group who doesn't agree with the status quo opinion must all be giving into groupthink, eh?

And note how you deny in other places attributing the idea of fundamental change being possible to me alone, yet here you call it the "Dissy plan"? Good for your credibility and consistency, hmm, Ethe?

Because it always made so much sense to them without your persuasive voice before, right, Ethan? But maybe they really are as naive and out of touch with the world outside of GC as you seem to think, and maybe your zealotry will indeed convince them to finally see the "light." No evidence of that so far, but keep trying! Your credibility can only go up from this point, right?

Maybe you'll go for the Dissy plan because Ethan disagrees, and Ethan is wrong about everything.

Or maybe they will go for the "Dissy plan" because they are more than smart and experienced enough to know that it's far from my plan, and they have already spent countless hours of their lives analyzing and considering the consensus view that you support, and they came to the informed personal conclusion that it was wrong long, long before Ethan began spouting it in their midst like the proverbial broken record. And long, long before they met "Dissy." "Dissy" certainly didn't convince the majority here to become Marxists, after all.

I just ask you to think about it.

Because living full time within the virtual walls of GC, they never thought about any of the mainstream rhetoric before, right? Oh, wait...

This analysis matches Dissy's scope in being about the entirety of society. An opinion on youth liberation can be viewed as a more specific question, which I would like to do.

And which your credibility for openness of mind has thus far proven you ideal for doing. Yes, we all get that.

Keep in mind that you can retain your belief that adult-child sex is fundamentally OK no matter what you decide.

Thank you for reminding what you seem to perceive as "Dissy's mindless followers" that they can do that, Ethan. I'm sure they agree that they totally deserved your condescending, paternalistic tone in this post, no doubt. After all, if that's how adults normally talk to kids, then why not take the identical tone with adults who are attracted to them, right? If only they knew how much Dissy looks up to all of them, and finds himself inadequate in their presence... which is the truth, and why people around here are not mere sycophants or yes-men of Dissy.