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Posted by GL_in_lyrics on Wednesday, January 24 2018 at 11:25:40PM
In reply to Fundie, but unaffiliated. Calvinist (?) posted by Hajduk on Wednesday, January 24 2018 at 10:25:59PM

All of what we can observe of reality shows order and predictability. It shows something which can be described as "Certainty".

Certainty requires God.

If there was no God, reality would be disorderly and unpredictable. Objects would fall up instead of down whimsically. Water would boil and freeze nobody knows when or how.

If you read my other posts in this thread, I did already answer some of this.

As I said to someone else, this sort of logic shows ignorance of science (no offense). Misunderstandings.

Firstly, the understandings of the broader universe and quantum physics do *NOT* show order and predictability. But I'm not a huge "expert" in that field. However, what you're saying is like if one were to view life on our planet, and the entire earth itself, as not just the only place where life can exist, but also the only planet that exists. The universe itself is huge, and rare things happen all the time in it... including life. If we take the number of planets that do not house life, we can conclude that life is a very rare, coincidental thing, even though it does happen. To understand the workings and "order" of the universe, one simply needs to replace the word "life" with "universe". If there are multiple universes, or an infinite number of them (which science is showing there probably is), you can think of each universe like a planet. Things work differently on each planet. Gravity is different, climate and geography are different, etc. With different universes, the laws of physics are different depending on the factors which each universe arose under. Some universes would appear VERY disorderly and not be able to house life of any sort. Some universes would collapse back on themselves after a certain amount of time, even seconds, or less.

Our universe went through more changes in its first split-second of existence than it has since then. Our universe is capable of many things, including life. It's just a matter of understanding all the changes the universe went through, which science pretty much has all written down for you to study. If there is a collection of billions, trillions, zillions, or infinite universes, each with different characteristics, it is no surprise to find ones like ours. It's the concept of 'infinity'. If there are infinite amounts of universes, there's even one right now EXACTLY like ours down to a "T", where I'm typing this very message to you right now, except I'll type ONE letter differently than I am here. And that will be the only difference in the history of that universe. Some very respected scientists have even said our universe alone may be infinite, and therefore, you'd find other planet earths exactly like ours, with 7,000,000,000 copy cats of us. This is not to take into account other infinite universes that may exist as well within this infinite collection of universes.

All this, I find much more believable, amazing, and fantastic than the idea of "God". Even if that means we don't get an afterlife, which when it comes down to it is the #1 reason so many people choose to believe in "him".

But maybe since science is not 100% sure on these things, we should all just cop-out and believe in "God". "I don't know, therefore God".

What you're saying is precisely the type of logic that now persuades me against religion, after having being educated more on science. The good thing about science is that it's right whether or not you want it to be. And if our universe didn't evolve the way it did, we would not be here to ask these questions. The fact is, we are here, and the universe did evolve the way it did, so we shouldn't be surprised to find ourselves here being able to ask these questions. The "people" on a planet or in a universe incapable of housing life are not able to ask these questions... because it is impossible for them to exist.

It's also funny to me how all of the answers of Atheists mention God endorsing the commission of immoral acts. If there is no God, how can you call an act immoral? Why is genocide, rape or slavery wrong? If there is no morality, genocide, rape and slavery just are, and cannot be wrong or right. Right and wrong just don't exist.

Morality requires God. If there is no God, no acts are better or worse than other acts. All are just acts.

Erm. I'm gonna stick with my view that raping and killing the little girls I love is wrong. Furthermore, study of evolution will show *why* it is we evolved to have the morals we do.

I could ask you how you know what is right or wrong, since you admit you don't have an actual religion. What scripture do you follow? What dictation? How can be sure you're not making up your own 'gospel' as you go along? How can you expect your truth to be the one truth for all of humanity?

And why should I trust a god who says it's alright to commit certain questionable actions, and other times that it's wrong to commit them?

If this were indeed all the truth, then I'd rather follow what's known as 'Satan'.

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