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Re: Diss would call it debate

Posted by lee lette on 2012-August-04 11:39:01 EDT, Saturday
In reply to Re: Diss would call it debate posted by Dissident on 2012-August-02 04:51:01 EDT, Thursday
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The great majority of civilized people in the Western world were against homosexuality a mere 60 years ago. Prostitution in general is rife in every country yet illegal in many of the most liberal nations. So you are saying that the consensus opinion is always right in the sense of being a universal truth of some sort rather than merely by default?

I don't think the consensus is always right - I am quite liberal with my thinking - but on this issue I do not see much change occurring. Can't really add anything to that.

The point here seems to be that our society is more interested in protecting children from specifically sexual activity in general than being beaten or psychologically bullied in ways that do not involve sexuality in any fashion.

I'll agree that there might be more focus on sexual abuse than for many other abuses - Childline in the UK I think reports sexual abuse issues as 10% of all their calls - but perhaps that is because it has been a relatively new topic of interest and it suits the media to run with it.

What is perhaps regarded as "consensual" and what is regarded as abuse is not clear however.

That's because the law currently conflates the two, and the word of the underage person is never listened to unless they happen to say what society at large wants to hear, even if what they want to hear must be pulled out of a child via hours of interrogation methods by police and social workers.

If we can leave out the adolescents then for pre-pubescents it will be an isuue of their maturity and understanding of the issues and I don't expect the authorities have it entirely right at the moment.

Have you actually seen any progress towards the legitimising of sexual relationships between adults and pre-pubescents over the last few decades?

And you seriously believe that a few decades is a long period of time in the fulcrum of human history?

This is true, but as far as I can see the trend appears to be going in the opposite direction than those here on GC would like to see.

I never had any such misconceptions but my interest is with pre-pubescents and their protection not with the teenagers who might wish to have sex and essentially have no problems or perhaps do. They are entitled to make their own decisions and mistakes perhaps, essentially being adult in most things whereas pre-pubescents are decidedly not.

Then why do adults so often make bad decisions? What is it about being "adult" that automatically makes us better equipped to make personal decisions about any conceivable matter than any child, no matter who they might be, what type of environment they live in, and what the quality of their life experiences may have been even at the age of 7?

Life is a lottery and fortunately I was born in a relatively prosperous country coming from two healthy individuals who also had good characters and seemingly produced in me a reasonably healthy and reasonably intelligent son. Many others are not so lucky and so do I have to go into the reasons why some individuals make bad decisions? I frequently do and I can't really blame my parents, background or other issues. The point about children is that they simply do not have the life experiences (and cannot because of time constraints) or the maturity for some decision-making. I will grant we in the West have "infantilised" the childhoods of many of our children by being over-protective. I have travelled quite widely and have seen how very young children do have much more responsiblities than we in the West. However, children are much the same all around the world and tend to react much the same. Children can often be transposed from one environment to an entirely different one and even not speaking the languge will fit in and adapt readily - and appear much like other children.

And how do we reconcile this with the fact that prior to children losing their civil rights, they would routinely take apprenticeships as early as age 6 or 7?

Not sure they had any "civil rights" to begin with and even in countries where children do work they might not be seen as having any particular "rights." I'm not against children working at young ages but this mostly limits their education so would perhaps be seen more as limiting their freedom than many things might.

Secondly, whether or not the experiences are atypical or not may be irrelevant, because it's clear that individuals who were quite sexual as children developed a positive view of it as an adult, and this despite our culture trying to convince them to feel ashamed about it or "damaged goods."

I could probably find as many who would say that their early sexual experiences damaged them. You might see it as our culture trying to convince them of the "damage" whilst others might see it as seeing more clearly what the dynamics were at the time.

Perhaps because the "repression" is in your head and most children are not actually repressed.

Mmmhmmm, no one in our society goes batshit crazy whenever they see a child expressing themselves sexually, because our cultural mores are entirely tolerant and objective on the subject, right?

Well there is a difference between "normal" behaviour and "repression" and if one did not miss out on early sexuality then it would hardly be called repression. The few who do have early sexual experiences might not be considered abnormal but those with whom they interact who might not be ready for such experiences might see it differently later. There is a large issue with sibling abuse because older siblings just do not have the controls in place and sexually interact with those younger simply because they can and the younger child does not have the capacity to resist in many cases.

And btw, lee, I remember getting an erect a few years before I was ten. Can you prove that your experience was more common than mine?

I can't prove this no, but from my recollections of primary school, sexuality was not an issue apart from the "dirty jokes" and occasional girl chasing by a small number of boys. Boys mostly kept to themselves as did the girls and like the book I mentioned in one thread it is much the same even now. It seems from the literature that I have seen that I was probably an early starter into puberty as many do not do so until 12 or 13 so those having even earlier experiences than me would be much less in number.

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